This blog is called Dead Theologians because I prefer to read the works of Luther, Calvin, Spurgeon, Edwards, Whitefield and the like rather than 99% of today's wasted ink on paper.
The content on this page is my honest attempt to go over things that pertain to Christianity and its mouthpiece, the church.
I also plan to write about many other topics that relate to my life as a Christian. My goal is to comment throughout the week on one subject while changing subjects every week or so.
Wednesday, September 19, 2007
UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
Mike Ratcliffe does a good job going over the issue of Unconditional Election. It is not an exhaustive work but is anything an exhaustive work. As he starts out...
"The Doctrine of Unconditional Election is not for sissies."
You are right about it not be an exhaustive work. To do that in a blog would take more posts than I think any of us could stand and I wouldn't have time for anything else, such as breathing, eating and replying to comments. :-)
Hi all,its become apparent of late after some heartfelt pondering that i'm not a Christians.
Though from a very normal Non-Christian family,i have been intrigued by Christianity for as long as i can remember,as a child i was fascinated by the Bible and Biblical films(as young as 5)..At 15 i read Run Baby Run by Nicky Cruz and said "the prayer" then joint a ultra charismatic church..
But to be honest i was disappointed with the all salvation experience,when i questioned it (which i did questions,questions,questions) i was more or less told your saved you've said the prayer,now lets pray that you can talk in tongues.
The all experience was a disappointment,and i was left thinking theres got to be more..I got frustrated and cynical and eventually went running into the world (sin wise you could say i brought the teeshirt)..
Now where does this leave me?? a person who as read the bible through many times,heard countless sermons,books,radio shows etc (even touched and insired by some)..
So what am i? a person totally depraved chasing after God? You say thats impossible don't you?
I'm at a loss to see where TULIP can help me,and in some ways it contradict my hopes that i will find God,the prayer of my heart is "where are you God" or questions questions ;-)
Didn't the old woman suffering from a blood disease chase after God? Didn't Jesus say her faith had made her well,He didn't say unknown to you i called you!! Didn't the lepers chase after Him?
Does TULIP mean you can't search for God, i'm confused do i sit and wait or search and study?
I hope you won't mind me interjecting here. I think DT is correct.
I will say that there have been a few times in my Christian walk when I just thought, it is too hard I just want to walk away from all of this, maybe even go back to ignorant bliss (as if life before Christ was bliss).
However, I couldn't and I can't. I am inexplicably drawn to the Lord Jesus.
I heard a pastor say once that if you are doubting your salvation, it is a good thing. At least you are concerned about it enough to do some heartfelt thinking. The Bible commands us to examine ourselves daily to see if we be in the faith. Too many "Christians" rely on a decision that they made years ago to get them in to heaven.
Search and pray. Read the Bible, and ask the Lord to make Himself known to you.
I think your searching and asking questions is a good thing.
Andy - In 1975 I became thoughtful about who Jesus was, forgetting about any church or preacher. I climbed up the side of Garret Mountain in Wayne, New Jersey overlooking New York City and I told Jesus that if He was real and alive I wanted to know Him.
I cannot give you actual words, but in several hours I became a believer. "He that COMES UNTO ME I will in no wise cast out". That my friend is the promise He gave me, I will pray also.
There is no formula to rid you of your doubts. As Christians the walk that we walk is filled with doubts as God sometimes chooses to remain silent.
If God is dealing with you I recommend you not to focus on TULIP, Arminian, Calvinism, or anything else EXCEPT the Bible. Read it till you find the peace from the Lord.
The belief systems that we talk about do not save us. They define us or show what angle we are coming from. Jesus Christ's death on the cross and resurrection from the grave is where the power is. Not simply in systems or books. Talk to God after reading the Bible and ask Him to reveal to you whether you are saved or not.
TULIP is deficient. It begins with total depravity, (Genesis 3), and completely overlooks the relationship that God had with man before the fall (Genesis 1 & 2).
Don't seek answers to questions like what mode of baptism is right, is Israel going to be restored, etc. Deal with the question that Jesus asked Peter; "Who do you say that I am?"
He promises to ALWAYS answer our cries for forgiveness, salvation, and relationship with Him!
Do not despair. Continue to cry out to the Lord. "God, be merciful to me a sinner" the tax collector said as he beat his breast in Luke 18:13. It's been seven years for me, and TULIP was not apart of my Christian journey until a few months ago.
Right now, just focus on knowing nothing except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Understand, through God's grace, what Christ has done. You realize that the things you have done are a filthy rags, and you do well. Now burn the rags and helplessly throw yourself on Christ's mercy and righteousness. Continue until you are assured.
You are in my prayers; that your repentance from dead works and faith in Christ will be assured through the working of His Spirit.
Like I said earlier... don't worry about all of this doctrinal debating stuff. Just call out to Jesus to forgive your sin and surrender yourself to follow Him and Him only.
Hi sorry ive been away to paris disney for a few days..Its a contradiction because hes saying pray to God even so we cant come after God,surely if your praying you are coming after God??
"The Doctrine of Unconditional Election is not for sissies."
Sounds a bit prideful, like you're saying Arminians and those that beleive in corporate-election are sissies. Whatever happened to not of works lest any man should boast? Well, saith the Calvinist, I'll not boast in works, but rather in my manliness that allows me to beleive in unconditional election while all the sissies are too weak to beleive in it. Sounds to me a lot like 1 Tim 6:4 needs to be looked over, because I think statements like that quoted above qualify as "proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings," -- Who, after all, is more proud of their surmisings and dotes on questions and strifes of words more than a Calvinist? Now there's something for Calvinists to boast in.
16 comments:
You are right about it not be an exhaustive work. To do that in a blog would take more posts than I think any of us could stand and I wouldn't have time for anything else, such as breathing, eating and replying to comments. :-)
Mike,
I'm all for you trying to do an exhaustive work on it. :)
DT
Hi all,its become apparent of late after some heartfelt pondering that i'm not a Christians.
Though from a very normal Non-Christian family,i have been intrigued by Christianity for as long as i can remember,as a child i was fascinated by the Bible and Biblical films(as young as 5)..At 15 i read Run Baby Run by Nicky Cruz and said "the prayer" then joint a ultra charismatic church..
But to be honest i was disappointed with the all salvation experience,when i questioned it (which i did questions,questions,questions) i was more or less told your saved you've said the prayer,now lets pray that you can talk in tongues.
The all experience was a disappointment,and i was left thinking theres got to be more..I got frustrated and cynical and eventually went running into the world (sin wise you could say i brought the teeshirt)..
Now where does this leave me?? a person who as read the bible through many times,heard countless sermons,books,radio shows etc (even touched and insired by some)..
So what am i? a person totally depraved chasing after God? You say thats impossible don't you?
I'm at a loss to see where TULIP can help me,and in some ways it contradict my hopes that i will find God,the prayer of my heart is "where are you God" or questions questions ;-)
Didn't the old woman suffering from a blood disease chase after God? Didn't Jesus say her faith had made her well,He didn't say unknown to you i called you!! Didn't the lepers chase after Him?
Does TULIP mean you can't search for God, i'm confused do i sit and wait or search and study?
Andy,
The "Tongues" issue happened to me also.
Have you thought that maybe you are "chasing after God" because He is dealing with you?
DT
DT basically i just don't know,i know its not about feelings but i think there should be some assurances!
Some of the major question ive had of late original sin,trinity,reform stuff as left me thinking maybe were just all deluded..
I meet a lot of Christian,when i get to know them their really just like me,they hope its true but they don't really know..
Maybe its just play the game keep shut and appear a Christians,but thats not for me, i know somethings not right i'm not going to kid myself!
Andy,
I hope you won't mind me interjecting here. I think DT is correct.
I will say that there have been a few times in my Christian walk when I just thought, it is too hard I just want to walk away from all of this, maybe even go back to ignorant bliss (as if life before Christ was bliss).
However, I couldn't and I can't. I am inexplicably drawn to the Lord Jesus.
I heard a pastor say once that if you are doubting your salvation, it is a good thing. At least you are concerned about it enough to do some heartfelt thinking. The Bible commands us to examine ourselves daily to see if we be in the faith. Too many "Christians" rely on a decision that they made years ago to get them in to heaven.
Search and pray. Read the Bible, and ask the Lord to make Himself known to you.
I think your searching and asking questions is a good thing.
I will be praying for you.
Deborah
Andy - In 1975 I became thoughtful about who Jesus was, forgetting about any church or preacher. I climbed up the side of Garret Mountain in Wayne, New Jersey overlooking New York City and I told Jesus that if He was real and alive I wanted to know Him.
I cannot give you actual words, but in several hours I became a believer. "He that COMES UNTO ME I will in no wise cast out". That my friend is the promise He gave me, I will pray also.
Hey Henry (rick),
I have missed you. I hope all is well.
Deborah
Andy,
There is no formula to rid you of your doubts. As Christians the walk that we walk is filled with doubts as God sometimes chooses to remain silent.
If God is dealing with you I recommend you not to focus on TULIP, Arminian, Calvinism, or anything else EXCEPT the Bible. Read it till you find the peace from the Lord.
The belief systems that we talk about do not save us. They define us or show what angle we are coming from. Jesus Christ's death on the cross and resurrection from the grave is where the power is. Not simply in systems or books.
Talk to God after reading the Bible and ask Him to reveal to you whether you are saved or not.
DT
Andy,
TULIP is deficient. It begins with total depravity, (Genesis 3), and completely overlooks the relationship that God had with man before the fall (Genesis 1 & 2).
Don't seek answers to questions like what mode of baptism is right, is Israel going to be restored, etc. Deal with the question that Jesus asked Peter; "Who do you say that I am?"
He promises to ALWAYS answer our cries for forgiveness, salvation, and relationship with Him!
Andy,
Do not despair. Continue to cry out to the Lord. "God, be merciful to me a sinner" the tax collector said as he beat his breast in Luke 18:13. It's been seven years for me, and TULIP was not apart of my Christian journey until a few months ago.
Right now, just focus on knowing nothing except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Understand, through God's grace, what Christ has done. You realize that the things you have done are a filthy rags, and you do well. Now burn the rags and helplessly throw yourself on Christ's mercy and righteousness. Continue until you are assured.
You are in my prayers; that your repentance from dead works and faith in Christ will be assured through the working of His Spirit.
Hope in Christ,
Melissa
Is this quote by Paul Washer a contradiction
"the first prayer that ought to come out of a man's mouth is oh God have mercy on me a sinner,come after me because i will not come after you"
Andy,
How is it a contradiction?
Like I said earlier...
don't worry about all of this doctrinal debating stuff. Just call out to Jesus to forgive your sin and surrender yourself to follow Him and Him only.
DT
Hi sorry ive been away to paris disney for a few days..Its a contradiction because hes saying pray to God even so we cant come after God,surely if your praying you are coming after God??
Andy,
It is about praying for mercy not for what God can do for you when you're in a jam like most lost people do.
DT
"The Doctrine of Unconditional Election is not for sissies."
Sounds a bit prideful, like you're saying Arminians and those that beleive in corporate-election are sissies. Whatever happened to not of works lest any man should boast? Well, saith the Calvinist, I'll not boast in works, but rather in my manliness that allows me to beleive in unconditional election while all the sissies are too weak to beleive in it. Sounds to me a lot like 1 Tim 6:4 needs to be looked over, because I think statements like that quoted above qualify as "proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings," -- Who, after all, is more proud of their surmisings and dotes on questions and strifes of words more than a Calvinist? Now there's something for Calvinists to boast in.
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